Wednesday, October 22, 2008

Obama birth certificate issues

OK I'm going to risk going to the fringe here, but I've been following, for several months, with interest the debate about whether Obama was actually born in Hawaii or, as some suspect, in Kenya. Some time ago Obama released a scanned copy of the front side only of a "Certificate of Live Birth" showing he was born in Hawaii. There is some evidence that the document was forged from the certificate belonging to Obama's sister. Someone has even taken credit for making the forgery. For some reason he has not produced an actual birth certificate, or agreed to let Hawaii release the actual records.

On October 18 a lawsuit was filed in Hawaii seeking a court order to release the actual records. Coincidentally (?) Obama is now racing to Hawaii to visit his sick grandmother (you may recall her as the "typical white person"). The strange thing is she was released from the hospital more than a week ago and the campaign is not saying what is wrong with her now, nor did Obama feel the need to visit her when she was in the hospital. The man who filed the lawsuit claims the grandmother story is a ruse to cover up the real reason for the trip to Hawaii.

Anyhow, there are two facts that are not in dispute:

1. Given his father being from Kenya and all his international travels as a child, living in Indonesia, etc.., it is reasonable to inquire as to whether Obama was born in the United States.

2. Obama has not released his actual birth certificate, nor has he given permission to the proper authorities in Hawaii to release the records.

To me this definitely fails the smell test, something fishy is going on here. It may be something devastating to the Obama campaign, like him not being a US citizen and therefore ineligible to be president. It might be something less devastating like him being listed as Muslim on the birth certificate.

I rate it as a 1 in 5 shot that this will boil over into the mainstream media and end up as Obama's October surprise. If Obama knows he was not born in the US and is covering it up, and ends up being elected, and then it comes out, he should be tried for treason.

32 comments:

Anonymous said...

He's running for Pres..... MY LORD. Doesn't the usa verify this stuff ???? Are you saying he just shows a "copy" as he chooses, to the usa authorities ? There must be someone who he had to answer to, in order to determine if he is eligible or not. I would think "Fox" has checked into it. I doubt you could rely much on most of our liberal, self-serving media.

right-wing prof said...

He put a copy on his website, but he has not released the actual piece of paper that appears on the website. Also noone has the official records from Hawaii.

I'm not really sure who is supposed to verify eligibility or the presidency. Interestingly, the man who filed the lawsuit, who is a prominent DEMOCRAT, says that one of the networks has a crew following him around Hawaii and that network is NOT Fox news. Very interesting.

Charlie said...

The reluctance of Obama and his campaign to respond to questions about his birth certificate is certainly grounds for suspicion. The fact that he and his campaign are using legal ploys to delay a potential court order requiring him to provide a verifiable copy of his birth certificate should be setting off alarm bells even with his most committed supporters. I cannot even begin to imagine the mess we would find ourselves in if a non-resident happened to be "elected" president. At the very least, it would seem that the election (and inauguration, if it got that far) would be invalid. Also, anyone and everyone who was privy to (and who concealed) the fact that he was not a natural-born citizen would be guilty of conspiracy to commit a federal felony and possibly to commit treason.

However, we cannot depend on the media or any of the three branches of our government to address this matter fully. Many of you will recall that during the entire Clinton administration, a large number of White House staff were operating under "temporary" White House credentials which had to be renewed monthly. That was because they could not pass FBI background checks required to be issued White house passes. In fact, the "Chief of White House Security" turned out to be nothing more than a thuggish ex-bar bouncer with a "private investigator license" he got by answering a magazine ad. Furthermore, nobody in the administration would admit to having hired him although he was on the payroll and had unfettered access to sensitive FBI files. If we are to find out what is really going on with Obama and his birth certificate, we will have to make it happen ourselves. At least two attorneys have already filed lawsuits asking for proof of Obama's place of birth. Hopefully more will follow, and soon.

Dan said...

Silly me. My first thought that when Obama announced Monday that he was leaving the campaign trail on Thursday, dear old grandma was going to pass away in the next day or so. After arriving in Hawaii, the Obamessiah was going to raise her from the dead and have her walk out of the morgue.
I like your theory better, RWP.

Jason said...

What is the evidence that the document may be forged? You claim that there is "some evidence" but do not back up that claim. If this article is to be taken seriously and claims of that nature are going to be made, it is certainly prudent to provide some sort of source for such a statement...

Thanks.

dave3544 said...

You're now suddenly worried about possible violations of the Constitution? Now you want to try people for treason?

Not that I want to get dragged into this, but as far as where people were born, I think we can all agree that there is only one candidate that we know was born in a foreign country.

right-wing prof said...

The evidence that it is forged is, most importantly, that Obama won't let anyone actually see the document. Instead he posted a scan of it on a website.

Numerous people have analyzed the scanned image and found multiple reasons that it is suspect, see for instance

http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2008/08/proof-barack-obama-birth-certificate-is.html

among other places. I won't go into all the details here. To me the most damning evidence is the first, that noone is allowed to see the actual document and that Obama is fighting a lawsuit to have the records released in Hawaii. Sorry but that just smells!

dave: we can agree the McCain was not born in the United States. Fortunately for him that is not the requirement to be president, he meets the citizenship requirements. Obama, quite possibly, does not.

levee guy said...

Obama has travelled abroad, so he presumably has a passport for which proof of citizenship is required. I would imagine that at some point in the process he would have had to show his birth certificate. Sounds to me much ado about nothing.

right-wing prof said...

That's bad analysis levee, noone doubts that Obama is a US citizen, his mother was a US citizen, and his passport just reflects that he is a US citizen. The question is whether he was born in Kenya, which would disqualify him from the presidency. All he has to do is let journalists review is actual birth certificate, why hasn't he done this?

Jason said...

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Anneke said...

The following qualifies as interesting innuendo. Yesterday, a female caller to a Talk Radio show brought up the possibility that Obama was born in Kenya. Her children were born in a foreign country while she and her husband were on a job assignment. In order for the children to be recognized as American citizens, she had to register their births with the American Embassy within three months (Consular Report of Birth Abroad). This caller's suggestion was: if Obama had been born in Kenya and his mother had reported his birth to the American Embassy, someone in his family would have the Consular Report of Birth Abroad. Possibly his grandma? And, is Obama going to Hawaii to find that document and make sure it never sees the light of day?

levee guy said...

I realize that. I was referring to the fact that he probably had to show his original birth certificate to hard-eyed authorities in order to obtain his passport. I still think it's much ado about nothing. If Obama was actually born in Kenya, it's hard to imagine that he could hide that fact forever given the attention he commands and the number of people who would like to see him fail. Someone, sometime, somewhere would have spilled the beans by now, long before this particular moment when it simply sounds desperate.

right-wing prof said...

Levee,
I don't doubt that he has a real birth certificate, the question is where is it. Why does he only post a scan on his website and let "factcheck.org" view it? 1

1. Why does Obama not let any major media organization view it?

2. Why does the Obama campaign try to have the lawsuit thrown out rather than just let the Hawaiin authorities release everything they have on the matter?

levee guy said...

RWP, I don't know. Maybe it's his way of saying that some things are too personal, public be damned. Maybe he wants conspiracy theorists to make fools of themselves. But my point remains: if he indeed was born in Kenya, surely many people already know this---relatives, school chums, friends, teachers, professional associates--- the sorts of people he would easily and unguardedly share this information with as a youth or young man long before he had political aspirations. It boggles the mind that anyone would think such a thing could be kept secret, and surely Obama realizes this. My opinion stands: it's a desperate attempt to create a political issue.

dave3544 said...

RWP,

I think maybe the answer to your question is that Obama feels like the call for him to prove he is an American citizen, or that he was born in the US, is just as effing insulting as the calls on him to prove that he's not a Muslim, he's not a terrorist, he refuses to say the pledge, he's not a baby-eater or all the other smears you and your friends throw at him.

I don't recall anyone calling on George W. Bush to prove that he was born in the US. Kerry didn't have to prove it. I don't recall anyone asking Bob Dole to prove it. I don't recall H.W., Dukakis, Reagan, Mondale, Carter, Ford, or Nixon having to produce a birth certificate before we all believed that they were "real" Americans.

You know as well as I do what differentiates Obama from these "obvious" Americans. And you wonder whey he's not running out to prove to the far-right fringe that he's really, truly American.

right-wing prof said...

" don't recall H.W., Dukakis, Reagan, Mondale, Carter, Ford, or Nixon having to produce a birth certificate "

None of them had fathers who were not American citizens and who left their mothers and moved back to Africa. None of them lived in Indonesia until they were 10 years old. None of them have half siblings living in shacks in Africa. This has nothing to do with whether he is Muslim, and it has nothing to do with whether he is an American. It has to do with whether he was born in Kenya.

1930's Sit-Down Striker said...

The fact check analysis completely debunks the claim that Obama was not born in Hawaii.

It does so via a systematic analysis and disclosure of all the physical evidence.

My guess is the reason why Obama refuses to release his documentation is simply on principle: If someone made a claim against me that I knew was demonstrably false, and then demanded that I produce the evidence to refute their claim (thereby relieving themselves of any burden of proof), I would absolutely refuse to give in to them, as I rightly should.
- '30s

Anonymous said...

I think some usa authority does check this out. It seems too important for them not to verify it. I would think that someone(s) must see more than just a copy. He does not really have to answer to anyone else, I would think.
I am assuming that by now, "they" are satisfied or Obama would not legally be this far in the election process.
It is still an interesting subject.
Let's talk about all of this "spending". Where will it be going ?

Dawg Doc said...

Trust me, the State Department has verified the birth records of Barack Obama. They have also examined his birth certificate for any potential irregularities regarding it before issuing him a passport.

This is another right-wing smear job dreamed up to distract people from the issues we face. Is there a single shred of evidence that Obama and his mother ever lived in Kenya?

Why, by the way, would being born in Kenya matter? The constitution says natural born citizen...not born on US soil. Aren't the children of Americans living overseas automatically considered natural born citizens?

Anonymous said...

I don't think this matters to me, although I find it fascinating to think that someone could be elected then found not to be a citizen.

Who would become pres then? Biden? Thrown into the House?

dawg--I think if one is born overseas, he has to choose citizenship when he hits 18. I may not be exact, but it's something like that.

BC

Patrick M said...

I can confirm with 100% certainty that the presidential candidate was not born in the United States.

Oh wait no - that's John McCain - he admits he was born in the Panama Canal zone outside US jurisdiction, and is clearly not a natural born citizen.

Guess if he did manage a miracle win, he would have to resign. Might as well get out now

right-wing prof said...

Uh Patrick, please know your facts before you post on this blog. McCain was born in the canal zone and he is eligible to be president, I'll let you do the research on this rather than explaining it to you here.

boonie said...

RWP, Surely Patrick was kidding. Everything can't be deadly serious all the time, even in the blog of such an endangered species as a right-wing professor. Lighten up. BTW, other than the blogosphere, I haven't heard or seen anything about the Obama birth certificate mystery. There's nothing in the mainstream media, which makes it even more likely that there is nothing to it.

Dave said...

So Boonie, by your logic, we should believe everything told to us (or not told) by the press? Yeah, right. I think even Dems who have the press in their pocket would disagree with that.

right-wing prof said...

Actually the NY Times did a front page story about the guy who is suing to get the birth certificate released a little while ago, but they didn't give any credence to his quest. Michael Savage, who I don't normally listen to but happened to hear a couple nights ago, has been railing about it on his show. I think the probabability that Obama was born in Kenya are low, but if he was the constitutional crisis it would create if it comes out after the election would be horrifying.

Dawg Doc said...

Actually, the Washington Post and Fact Check have both debunked this right wing conspiracy nonsense.

Dawg Doc said...

I researched this issue last night and even IF he was born in Kenya and his mom then traveled back to Hawaii and registered his birth he would still be considered a natural born citizen. Since he neither renounced his US citizenship nor swore an oath to Kenya he is a natural born US citizen and thus eligible to serve as president. End of story.

dave3544 said...

RWP: You say:

None of them had fathers who were not American citizens and who left their mothers and moved back to Africa. None of them lived in Indonesia until they were 10 years old. None of them have half siblings living in shacks in Africa. This has nothing to do with whether he is Muslim, and it has nothing to do with whether he is an American. It has to do with whether he was born in Kenya.

I ask how Obama's father's country of birth, where he grew up or where his brother live has any bearing on the notion that he was born in Kenya.

You've invented the idea (well, maybe not you, but people you are citing) that Obama was born in Kenya and now you are asking him to prove that he was not.

Again, we've taken at their word that all of the men I cited (and all others) we're born right here in the good ol' USA, but Obama must prove it. For all I know, the previous candidates were born while there parents were on vacation in Canada, Mexico or Greece. But nobody was howling for them to prove they were not.

right-wing prof said...

Dawg,
Do a little more research, the term "natural born citizen" is not defined and there is definite disagreement whether Obama would qualify if he was born in Kenya with a father who is not a citizen. See

http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/06/02/expats_ed3_.php

for more info on this.

paranoid conspiracy theorist said...

Well, I for one, demand that Obama also prove to me that he was not the second gunman on the grassy knoll (even though he was only two years old at the time). I demand this because, until he proves otherwise, we have no way of knowing that he wasn't. And that's just a risk we can't afford to live with!

right-wing grad student said...

RWP,

I find this story stunning--particularly since the link to IHP that you sent seems no longer viable.

But here, suppose Mr. Obama was born in Hawaii, then:

1) There should be a doctor/nurses who were present (unless it was a birth at home). Might they still be alive? Or, did Mr. Obama's grandmother deliver the child?

Surely his mother at least could give some memories of when/where she was when he was born.

2) If there was travel from Hawaii to Kenya/Indonesia/whereever sometime after he was born, can't these be checked?

3) If this has been "debunked" by Washington Post, et al, can we get the links to those articles?

Dawg Doc said...

RWGS

1) Mr. Obama was born in the hospital. Look at the certified copy of his birth certificate online. It is not a fake, it is a certified copy usually issued to someone who does not have an original. I have one myself because my parents only received a registration of live birth from the hospital. They thought it was a birth certificate until I was 32. I applied for my passport and was told by the agent that I had to order a certified copy of my birth certificate first. It looks like the one Obama posted.

2) Mr. Obama's mother died in 1995. She can't verify anything unless you believe seances actually work!

3) Theoretically, travel to from Kenya should be recorded in a passport. But there is no guarantee that Obama's mother kept her passport after returning to the United States. But nothing was computerized then so there would be no official records to consult.

4) Both the Washington Post and Fact-Check have looked at this claim and stated it has no validity. Snopes has also debunked this myth.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/citizen.asp

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/29/AR2008062901871_pf.html

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html